Saturday, April 14, 2012

Frost 2h PvP Questions

[:1]Currently I'm doing dw frost and it's pretty good but looking at all the top PvP frost DKs I'm getting the sense that 2h is the way to go. Now I'm not on any serious teams by any means but I do like to perform as best I can and increase our chances of winning. So with that said I wanted to ask a couple questions regarding 2h so I can try and get a feel for it in game:

-Does 2h use NS a lot less often to make room for obliterate?
-Given that obliterate scales with diseases, does 2h keep up plague strike?
-Is obliterate saved for execute phases or is it used pretty freely?
-Is apparatus any good with 2h, or does it take too long to build stacks?
-How are the runes generally spent?

I guess I'm moreso curious about how often Necrotic Strike is used and I'm wondering if 2h is more easily kited due to less NS/Desecrates?

If any experienced PvPers wouldn't mind answering those questions and potentially a couple others it'd be greatly appreciated. I tried posting on AJ but the site won't let me post anything there.

Thank you!
Up.
Pretty sure 2h uses Necrotic Strike about the same as DW.

If you're fighting a healer or dps with heals/healer, then use UH + Death Runes on Necro Strike. and Frost Runes on Howling Blast.

If you're fighting a dps with little heals/no healer, then use UH runes on Necro Strike, and the rest on Howling Blast.

Obliterate actually hits harder in DW, but it is still used primarily on low armor targets/execute range, preferrably with KM. So situational, but still very good.

I've heard the Apparatus is excellent burst in pvp. You should be stacking mastery for pvp so when you hit the Apparatus it should give you something like 2400 extra mastery, making your Howling Blast and Frost Strikes hit like a train. Macro it with PoF for max dmg.
Using the above situations, when would I use obliterate? Is it strictly for softer targets/execute phases even with 2h? I was under the impression that it's used a little more liberally in 2h.
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She just said "on low armor/execute-range targets" basically..
If your target is a clothie-mail you'll use it on them when they hit about 10-25%.. Merciless Combat lets you do 12% more damage with Obliterate and Frost strike on targets at or below 35%, but execute-range targets are essentially 20-25%.
I'm currently playing around with both, and from an arena and BG standpoint I'm starting to love DW.

Since 4.2. KM procs off both weapons, additionally obliterate received a pretty heavy downgrade (especially 2H). This makes the difference in DPS between the two quite dramatic. I would even say that DW obliterate hits harder (and faster) than the 2H bursts.

Additionally with the added haste / utility, being able to spam necrotic or HB at lightning speed really helps wear down the opposing healer.

Part of it comes down to play style, if you're playing on a pure cleave team. The additional burst damage will definitely outweigh the added utility/dps. You'll also see more KBs in BGs. If you're playing in a heavy heals situation (e.g. RBGs), I'd say that DW comes out on top as you'll be wearing down healers quite effectively.

The greatest advantage I see to a 2H is that the ruthless gear can be shared among all three specs. That's the only thing that's holding me back from committing to 2x 1H Ruthless weapons at the moment.
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She just said "on low armor/execute-range targets" basically..
If your target is a clothie-mail you'll use it on them when they hit about 10-25%.. Merciless Combat lets you do 12% more damage with Obliterate and Frost strike on targets at or below 35%, but execute-range targets are essentially 20-25%.


Yes I understood that however, that doesn't differentiate from DW because Dual Wield can do it the same way. I was just under the impression that 2h's used it more liberally is all.

Part of it comes down to play style, if you're playing on a pure cleave team. The additional burst damage will definitely outweigh the added utility/dps. You'll also see more KBs in BGs. If you're playing in a heavy heals situation (e.g. RBGs), I'd say that DW comes out on top as you'll be wearing down healers quite effectively.

The greatest advantage I see to a 2H is that the ruthless gear can be shared among all three specs. That's the only thing that's holding me back from committing to 2x 1H Ruthless weapons at the moment.


Sorry it's early, but I'm assuming you mean the DW provides the additional burst? What added utility would 2h bring?

I don't mind committing myself to 2x 1 handers simply because I don't like the Unholy or Blood specs personally. I just want to make a decision before I have enough conquest to get the weapons this week. I appreciate the responses though.
2H doesn't use obliterate any more than DW does, there's just nothing else to really put the points in. If i was picking now, i'd go DW for the weapon chain on offhand.


Sorry it's early, but I'm assuming you mean the DW provides the additional burst? What added utility would 2h bring?

I don't mind committing myself to 2x 1 handers simply because I don't like the Unholy or Blood specs personally. I just want to make a decision before I have enough conquest to get the weapons this week. I appreciate the responses though.


2H has higher burst overall, especially since you're generating a truck load of RP for frost strikes. DWs obliterate burst damage is higher, but that's very situation since it's a wet noodle against mail-plate wearers.

Basically, if you mostly play BGs, I would recommend DW. You won't get as many KBs but you'll see your damage top the charts (I usually get 1.25x whoever is in second) and the healers will cower away from you as soon as you arrive on scene.
Oh okay so the playstyle between DW and 2h is virtually the same then it sounds like except 2H has more RP and DW has more KM procs. Do I have the gist of it?

Edit: Also, is it worthwhile to use Apparatus with 2h or do the stacks take too long to build? Should I use the on-use strength pvp trinket instead?
ttt
Forgot to ask -- Is plague strike applied to increase obliterate damage?

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