[:1]Whats the best unholy pvp talent build? i am gonna try unholy but am not positive of what the best build would be, i was thinking more for bg's
My build is used a lot.
I've been messing around with this UH build, first time i've ever played UH and i must say, its pretty freakin fun. I feel like a lock that smacks stuff... hard. Oh and pay no attention to my glyphs besides the obvious ones, Glyph of scourge strike costs so much on my server i haven't gotten it yet.
Showing posts with label [:]. Show all posts
Showing posts with label [:]. Show all posts
Saturday, April 14, 2012
delete start over?
[:1]I really dislike female Blood Elves, I hate their stupid small weapons. Size matters you know!
She is one of two lvl 85 toons I have so my question to you is. Pay for a race change, or delete and start up a new DK?
My main is on the same server, Ally side.
Even a minimum wage job pays enough to make a race transfer worthwhile.
Seriously, think about how long it takes to level and re-gear.
I wouldn't say the OP has invested enough into that character to make the money of a race change worth it.
Just store anything of value on a temporary bank alt and start a new DK. Heirlooms and guild perks make leveling a breeze.
Set a bar, let's say iLvl359 (easily obtained via the 2 365's from Molten Front + JP gear).
If you get to that point and are still enjoying your Death Knight, buy a Race Change.
If you aren't enjoying him enough to pay for a Race change, it's not the Race of your character, it's the Class.
ya thats a good idea
Love my /roar, wouldn't lose it for the world.
The twirl on jump is awesome too.
If you enjoy PvP stick with Blood Elves; if not, change your race. Preferably Horde.
I don't really agree. I hate my female Draenei DK with a passion. I <3 this one.
go with draeni, they're the hawtness.
On a side note, if you have issued with their weapon size, you'll probably want someone big. orc, troll, tauren lead that pack in that. or you can just go male BE instead. a little cheaper, and i like their weapon animations more.
trolls have the cool swing (male only), orcs have the vicious swing, and taurens just whomp everything. pick ur poison.
I deleted and re-rolled this toon from an 80 UD DK and took about 2-3 days played time to get him back up, if you're willing to put in the time and effort just do it.
Even with heirlooms, its still going to be 24 hours or more to get to 85.
I'd much rather pay the $25 to race change...
Time vs Money
Do you have a descent job and little time to spend doing the same exact thing over again? Buy a race change.
Do you have 0 job, 0 money, and time to blow doing the same thing over again? Re-level.
She is one of two lvl 85 toons I have so my question to you is. Pay for a race change, or delete and start up a new DK?
My main is on the same server, Ally side.
Even a minimum wage job pays enough to make a race transfer worthwhile.
Seriously, think about how long it takes to level and re-gear.
I wouldn't say the OP has invested enough into that character to make the money of a race change worth it.
Just store anything of value on a temporary bank alt and start a new DK. Heirlooms and guild perks make leveling a breeze.
Set a bar, let's say iLvl359 (easily obtained via the 2 365's from Molten Front + JP gear).
If you get to that point and are still enjoying your Death Knight, buy a Race Change.
If you aren't enjoying him enough to pay for a Race change, it's not the Race of your character, it's the Class.
ya thats a good idea
Love my /roar, wouldn't lose it for the world.
The twirl on jump is awesome too.
If you enjoy PvP stick with Blood Elves; if not, change your race. Preferably Horde.
Set a bar, let's say iLvl359 (easily obtained via the 2 365's from Molten Front + JP gear).
If you get to that point and are still enjoying your Death Knight, buy a Race Change.
If you aren't enjoying him enough to pay for a Race change, it's not the Race of your character, it's the Class.
I don't really agree. I hate my female Draenei DK with a passion. I <3 this one.
go with draeni, they're the hawtness.
On a side note, if you have issued with their weapon size, you'll probably want someone big. orc, troll, tauren lead that pack in that. or you can just go male BE instead. a little cheaper, and i like their weapon animations more.
trolls have the cool swing (male only), orcs have the vicious swing, and taurens just whomp everything. pick ur poison.
I deleted and re-rolled this toon from an 80 UD DK and took about 2-3 days played time to get him back up, if you're willing to put in the time and effort just do it.
I wouldn't say the OP has invested enough into that character to make the money of a race change worth it.
Just store anything of value on a temporary bank alt and start a new DK. Heirlooms and guild perks make leveling a breeze.
Even with heirlooms, its still going to be 24 hours or more to get to 85.
I'd much rather pay the $25 to race change...
Time vs Money
Do you have a descent job and little time to spend doing the same exact thing over again? Buy a race change.
Do you have 0 job, 0 money, and time to blow doing the same thing over again? Re-level.
Blood DK pvp - Arena
[:1]I've been hearing of a 5's arena that consisted of 3 DK (Blood)/heals/and dps. I hear there's a video out there as well. Anyone got the pvp video for me or the names of the blood dk/teams?
Frost 2h PvP Questions
[:1]Currently I'm doing dw frost and it's pretty good but looking at all the top PvP frost DKs I'm getting the sense that 2h is the way to go. Now I'm not on any serious teams by any means but I do like to perform as best I can and increase our chances of winning. So with that said I wanted to ask a couple questions regarding 2h so I can try and get a feel for it in game:
-Does 2h use NS a lot less often to make room for obliterate?
-Given that obliterate scales with diseases, does 2h keep up plague strike?
-Is obliterate saved for execute phases or is it used pretty freely?
-Is apparatus any good with 2h, or does it take too long to build stacks?
-How are the runes generally spent?
I guess I'm moreso curious about how often Necrotic Strike is used and I'm wondering if 2h is more easily kited due to less NS/Desecrates?
If any experienced PvPers wouldn't mind answering those questions and potentially a couple others it'd be greatly appreciated. I tried posting on AJ but the site won't let me post anything there.
Thank you!
Up.
Pretty sure 2h uses Necrotic Strike about the same as DW.
If you're fighting a healer or dps with heals/healer, then use UH + Death Runes on Necro Strike. and Frost Runes on Howling Blast.
If you're fighting a dps with little heals/no healer, then use UH runes on Necro Strike, and the rest on Howling Blast.
Obliterate actually hits harder in DW, but it is still used primarily on low armor targets/execute range, preferrably with KM. So situational, but still very good.
I've heard the Apparatus is excellent burst in pvp. You should be stacking mastery for pvp so when you hit the Apparatus it should give you something like 2400 extra mastery, making your Howling Blast and Frost Strikes hit like a train. Macro it with PoF for max dmg.
Using the above situations, when would I use obliterate? Is it strictly for softer targets/execute phases even with 2h? I was under the impression that it's used a little more liberally in 2h.
...
She just said "on low armor/execute-range targets" basically..
If your target is a clothie-mail you'll use it on them when they hit about 10-25%.. Merciless Combat lets you do 12% more damage with Obliterate and Frost strike on targets at or below 35%, but execute-range targets are essentially 20-25%.
I'm currently playing around with both, and from an arena and BG standpoint I'm starting to love DW.
Since 4.2. KM procs off both weapons, additionally obliterate received a pretty heavy downgrade (especially 2H). This makes the difference in DPS between the two quite dramatic. I would even say that DW obliterate hits harder (and faster) than the 2H bursts.
Additionally with the added haste / utility, being able to spam necrotic or HB at lightning speed really helps wear down the opposing healer.
Part of it comes down to play style, if you're playing on a pure cleave team. The additional burst damage will definitely outweigh the added utility/dps. You'll also see more KBs in BGs. If you're playing in a heavy heals situation (e.g. RBGs), I'd say that DW comes out on top as you'll be wearing down healers quite effectively.
The greatest advantage I see to a 2H is that the ruthless gear can be shared among all three specs. That's the only thing that's holding me back from committing to 2x 1H Ruthless weapons at the moment.
Yes I understood that however, that doesn't differentiate from DW because Dual Wield can do it the same way. I was just under the impression that 2h's used it more liberally is all.
Sorry it's early, but I'm assuming you mean the DW provides the additional burst? What added utility would 2h bring?
I don't mind committing myself to 2x 1 handers simply because I don't like the Unholy or Blood specs personally. I just want to make a decision before I have enough conquest to get the weapons this week. I appreciate the responses though.
2H doesn't use obliterate any more than DW does, there's just nothing else to really put the points in. If i was picking now, i'd go DW for the weapon chain on offhand.
2H has higher burst overall, especially since you're generating a truck load of RP for frost strikes. DWs obliterate burst damage is higher, but that's very situation since it's a wet noodle against mail-plate wearers.
Basically, if you mostly play BGs, I would recommend DW. You won't get as many KBs but you'll see your damage top the charts (I usually get 1.25x whoever is in second) and the healers will cower away from you as soon as you arrive on scene.
Oh okay so the playstyle between DW and 2h is virtually the same then it sounds like except 2H has more RP and DW has more KM procs. Do I have the gist of it?
Edit: Also, is it worthwhile to use Apparatus with 2h or do the stacks take too long to build? Should I use the on-use strength pvp trinket instead?
ttt
Forgot to ask -- Is plague strike applied to increase obliterate damage?
-Does 2h use NS a lot less often to make room for obliterate?
-Given that obliterate scales with diseases, does 2h keep up plague strike?
-Is obliterate saved for execute phases or is it used pretty freely?
-Is apparatus any good with 2h, or does it take too long to build stacks?
-How are the runes generally spent?
I guess I'm moreso curious about how often Necrotic Strike is used and I'm wondering if 2h is more easily kited due to less NS/Desecrates?
If any experienced PvPers wouldn't mind answering those questions and potentially a couple others it'd be greatly appreciated. I tried posting on AJ but the site won't let me post anything there.
Thank you!
Up.
Pretty sure 2h uses Necrotic Strike about the same as DW.
If you're fighting a healer or dps with heals/healer, then use UH + Death Runes on Necro Strike. and Frost Runes on Howling Blast.
If you're fighting a dps with little heals/no healer, then use UH runes on Necro Strike, and the rest on Howling Blast.
Obliterate actually hits harder in DW, but it is still used primarily on low armor targets/execute range, preferrably with KM. So situational, but still very good.
I've heard the Apparatus is excellent burst in pvp. You should be stacking mastery for pvp so when you hit the Apparatus it should give you something like 2400 extra mastery, making your Howling Blast and Frost Strikes hit like a train. Macro it with PoF for max dmg.
Using the above situations, when would I use obliterate? Is it strictly for softer targets/execute phases even with 2h? I was under the impression that it's used a little more liberally in 2h.
...
She just said "on low armor/execute-range targets" basically..
If your target is a clothie-mail you'll use it on them when they hit about 10-25%.. Merciless Combat lets you do 12% more damage with Obliterate and Frost strike on targets at or below 35%, but execute-range targets are essentially 20-25%.
I'm currently playing around with both, and from an arena and BG standpoint I'm starting to love DW.
Since 4.2. KM procs off both weapons, additionally obliterate received a pretty heavy downgrade (especially 2H). This makes the difference in DPS between the two quite dramatic. I would even say that DW obliterate hits harder (and faster) than the 2H bursts.
Additionally with the added haste / utility, being able to spam necrotic or HB at lightning speed really helps wear down the opposing healer.
Part of it comes down to play style, if you're playing on a pure cleave team. The additional burst damage will definitely outweigh the added utility/dps. You'll also see more KBs in BGs. If you're playing in a heavy heals situation (e.g. RBGs), I'd say that DW comes out on top as you'll be wearing down healers quite effectively.
The greatest advantage I see to a 2H is that the ruthless gear can be shared among all three specs. That's the only thing that's holding me back from committing to 2x 1H Ruthless weapons at the moment.
...
She just said "on low armor/execute-range targets" basically..
If your target is a clothie-mail you'll use it on them when they hit about 10-25%.. Merciless Combat lets you do 12% more damage with Obliterate and Frost strike on targets at or below 35%, but execute-range targets are essentially 20-25%.
Yes I understood that however, that doesn't differentiate from DW because Dual Wield can do it the same way. I was just under the impression that 2h's used it more liberally is all.
Part of it comes down to play style, if you're playing on a pure cleave team. The additional burst damage will definitely outweigh the added utility/dps. You'll also see more KBs in BGs. If you're playing in a heavy heals situation (e.g. RBGs), I'd say that DW comes out on top as you'll be wearing down healers quite effectively.
The greatest advantage I see to a 2H is that the ruthless gear can be shared among all three specs. That's the only thing that's holding me back from committing to 2x 1H Ruthless weapons at the moment.
Sorry it's early, but I'm assuming you mean the DW provides the additional burst? What added utility would 2h bring?
I don't mind committing myself to 2x 1 handers simply because I don't like the Unholy or Blood specs personally. I just want to make a decision before I have enough conquest to get the weapons this week. I appreciate the responses though.
2H doesn't use obliterate any more than DW does, there's just nothing else to really put the points in. If i was picking now, i'd go DW for the weapon chain on offhand.
Sorry it's early, but I'm assuming you mean the DW provides the additional burst? What added utility would 2h bring?
I don't mind committing myself to 2x 1 handers simply because I don't like the Unholy or Blood specs personally. I just want to make a decision before I have enough conquest to get the weapons this week. I appreciate the responses though.
2H has higher burst overall, especially since you're generating a truck load of RP for frost strikes. DWs obliterate burst damage is higher, but that's very situation since it's a wet noodle against mail-plate wearers.
Basically, if you mostly play BGs, I would recommend DW. You won't get as many KBs but you'll see your damage top the charts (I usually get 1.25x whoever is in second) and the healers will cower away from you as soon as you arrive on scene.
Oh okay so the playstyle between DW and 2h is virtually the same then it sounds like except 2H has more RP and DW has more KM procs. Do I have the gist of it?
Edit: Also, is it worthwhile to use Apparatus with 2h or do the stacks take too long to build? Should I use the on-use strength pvp trinket instead?
ttt
Forgot to ask -- Is plague strike applied to increase obliterate damage?
I could use some help with 1H Frost.
[:1]alright so i recently switched to 1H Frost (yes i know i have pretty crappy axes or w/e,) but anyways i was wondering should i use Frost Presence or should i use Unholy Presence, And What should i stack Mastery, Or Haste What would provide the most dps increase??
Read sticky.
DW, unholy presence, stack hit>EXP>haste>mastery.
Read sticky for all the other important stuff.
Read sticky.
DW, unholy presence, stack hit>EXP>haste>mastery.
Read sticky for all the other important stuff.
Another day, another hotfix and patch notes
[:1]...and still nothing to make 2H Frost viable in raids.
I wouldnt count on it to be honest. I dont think it will be a quick fix.
Don't worry my money is on a MASSIVE dw nerf by the end of the patch notes, Probably going to see an AMS nerf too to help casters, Probably also going to see them drop frost damage across the board too, gotta help with the fact were massively op in PvP after all, Likely to see a few blood survivability nerfs to top it all off, and possibly a "fix" for unholys ghoul+garg that make them even more retarded that happens to spark some exploitable mechanic that brings the damage to stupid levels leading to a 4.0.6 knee jerk fix before they fix the problem and leave unholy even worse off then it was in 4.0.6 and calling it working as intended.
Can you tell after so many retarded changes to the class i'm pessimistic at BEST about not getting nerfed into the ground based on forum QQ?
saddest part is im sure you are right...
I wouldnt count on it to be honest. I dont think it will be a quick fix.
Don't worry my money is on a MASSIVE dw nerf by the end of the patch notes, Probably going to see an AMS nerf too to help casters, Probably also going to see them drop frost damage across the board too, gotta help with the fact were massively op in PvP after all, Likely to see a few blood survivability nerfs to top it all off, and possibly a "fix" for unholys ghoul+garg that make them even more retarded that happens to spark some exploitable mechanic that brings the damage to stupid levels leading to a 4.0.6 knee jerk fix before they fix the problem and leave unholy even worse off then it was in 4.0.6 and calling it working as intended.
Can you tell after so many retarded changes to the class i'm pessimistic at BEST about not getting nerfed into the ground based on forum QQ?
Don't worry my money is on a MASSIVE dw nerf by the end of the patch notes, Probably going to see an AMS nerf too to help casters, Probably also going to see them drop frost damage across the board too, gotta help with the fact were massively op in PvP after all, Likely to see a few blood survivability nerfs to top it all off, and possibly a "fix" for unholys ghoul+garg that make them even more retarded that happens to spark some exploitable mechanic that brings the damage to stupid levels leading to a 4.0.6 knee jerk fix before they fix the problem and leave unholy even worse off then it was in 4.0.6 and calling it working as intended.
Can you tell after so many retarded changes to the class i'm pessimistic at BEST about not getting nerfed into the ground based on forum QQ?
saddest part is im sure you are right...
point of dks?
[:1]recently me and my rogue partner decided to do 3s(yes low rating, whatever)
point is every time we see a DK with 1 healer, that dk dies in a smoke bomb, the amount of mitgation the dk has is just too low, right now if we see a healer+dk+xxx, we just train the dk and the dk dies within a few seconds.
Unfortunately it goes the same for me, im usually the target, and being forced to run with blade barrier and 4400 resilience.
In other words, dks are just too easy to kill for melee
I hear you there, I'm not an extremely high rating and I get trained sometimes when I don't rotate cooldowns effectively. . But A well timed IBF during a stun lock, and anti-magic shell when up against casters, and the zone for when the battle comes to close quarters all are effective ways to take less damage.
Not to mention lichborne healing does quite a bit, on top of the ghoul sac (not my first preference) and even though it sucks and eats away all of your runes, death strike has still saved my life countless times.
I will agree with you that we can be trained, but not until after I blow the full arsenal to stay alive, which usually works.
Deleted by Chiyou
its not that dk's are too easy to kill, lots of classes are just as easy. its that dk's have no moves to stop incoming damage on the caliber of: iceblock, vanish, deterrence, disperse, bubble, leap, intervene, bear-form, teleport, fear...etc.
you look at the top dps' in any arena comp and its clear that the classes with the most/best o'crapola buttons dominate.
the other thing is, you're only as good as your healer. i've never had the luxury of running with a great healer yet on my dk, but i've fought against them and for a dk, you need a great healer.
That is way too much resilience...do not run anything over 4200 resil. Personally I only run with 3750 resil if I am not getting targetted and 4150 resil if I am.
My advice is play with a class that the opposing team has to control. In other words play with a mage, warlock or hunter. Anything else you will have a really hard time staying alive.
Also save your cds for when you need it...i.e. do not blow AMS at 100k+ health.
point is every time we see a DK with 1 healer, that dk dies in a smoke bomb, the amount of mitgation the dk has is just too low, right now if we see a healer+dk+xxx, we just train the dk and the dk dies within a few seconds.
Unfortunately it goes the same for me, im usually the target, and being forced to run with blade barrier and 4400 resilience.
In other words, dks are just too easy to kill for melee
I hear you there, I'm not an extremely high rating and I get trained sometimes when I don't rotate cooldowns effectively. . But A well timed IBF during a stun lock, and anti-magic shell when up against casters, and the zone for when the battle comes to close quarters all are effective ways to take less damage.
Not to mention lichborne healing does quite a bit, on top of the ghoul sac (not my first preference) and even though it sucks and eats away all of your runes, death strike has still saved my life countless times.
I will agree with you that we can be trained, but not until after I blow the full arsenal to stay alive, which usually works.
Deleted by Chiyou
its not that dk's are too easy to kill, lots of classes are just as easy. its that dk's have no moves to stop incoming damage on the caliber of: iceblock, vanish, deterrence, disperse, bubble, leap, intervene, bear-form, teleport, fear...etc.
you look at the top dps' in any arena comp and its clear that the classes with the most/best o'crapola buttons dominate.
the other thing is, you're only as good as your healer. i've never had the luxury of running with a great healer yet on my dk, but i've fought against them and for a dk, you need a great healer.
recently me and my rogue partner decided to do 3s(yes low rating, whatever)
point is every time we see a DK with 1 healer, that dk dies in a smoke bomb, the amount of mitgation the dk has is just too low, right now if we see a healer+dk+xxx, we just train the dk and the dk dies within a few seconds.
Unfortunately it goes the same for me, im usually the target, and being forced to run with blade barrier and 4400 resilience.
In other words, dks are just too easy to kill for melee
That is way too much resilience...do not run anything over 4200 resil. Personally I only run with 3750 resil if I am not getting targetted and 4150 resil if I am.
My advice is play with a class that the opposing team has to control. In other words play with a mage, warlock or hunter. Anything else you will have a really hard time staying alive.
Also save your cds for when you need it...i.e. do not blow AMS at 100k+ health.
Anyone have a good UI for DK's?
[:1]Let me know what your using and if possible a screen shot. that would be awesome.
thanks
Deleted by Corpseicle
bump
all i use is dbm and recount, nothing else.
well mailget to add a "get all mail" button to my mailbox but that doesn't count.
sorry, i guess that wasn't helpfull...
DecUI (mod of ElvUI)
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info17206-DecUI.html
That is a really nice looking IU, i have tried so many, but end up just going back to the wow UI. I think i will give this one a go though.
ElvUI is great, though I recommend a custom rune bar.
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6863/myuid.jpg
my custom UI
Heres mine:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/alpha_male/WoWScrnShot_080811_151358.jpg
Better off with Elv and adding in your own stuff... ^^ that compilation is a joke. He has added so much bloat.
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info17749-ElvUI.html
Elv is working on V3 which is going to be pretty BA......
Realui is pretty pimp...
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16068-RealUI.html
I switch between elv and realui depending on how I feel.
I use nUI. The HUD is really useful for tanking because it will show you target of target and duffs and number of stacks of said debuffs, making it really useful for mechanics that require tank swaps and such. The only downside is the lack of options interface, you have to use / commands to change the options.
I also use tidy plates for multi-target, it will show aggro and allow you to select the mob by clicking the name plates, but is a lot cleaner than the default nameplates.
thanks
Deleted by Corpseicle
bump
all i use is dbm and recount, nothing else.
well mailget to add a "get all mail" button to my mailbox but that doesn't count.
sorry, i guess that wasn't helpfull...
DecUI (mod of ElvUI)
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info17206-DecUI.html
DecUI (mod of ElvUI)
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info17206-DecUI.html
That is a really nice looking IU, i have tried so many, but end up just going back to the wow UI. I think i will give this one a go though.
ElvUI is great, though I recommend a custom rune bar.
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6863/myuid.jpg
my custom UI
Heres mine:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/alpha_male/WoWScrnShot_080811_151358.jpg
DecUI (mod of ElvUI)
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info17206-DecUI.html
Better off with Elv and adding in your own stuff... ^^ that compilation is a joke. He has added so much bloat.
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info17749-ElvUI.html
Elv is working on V3 which is going to be pretty BA......
Realui is pretty pimp...
http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16068-RealUI.html
I switch between elv and realui depending on how I feel.
I use nUI. The HUD is really useful for tanking because it will show you target of target and duffs and number of stacks of said debuffs, making it really useful for mechanics that require tank swaps and such. The only downside is the lack of options interface, you have to use / commands to change the options.
I also use tidy plates for multi-target, it will show aggro and allow you to select the mob by clicking the name plates, but is a lot cleaner than the default nameplates.
Avoidance
[:1]One thing I've not been able to find out in the sticky is how much Avoidance is consider OK for a Blood tank to have. I know Mastery is better than avoidance overall, but sometimes it's just not possible to enchant or reforge into more Mastery. Sometimes I've heard it's ideal to try and achieve an overall 30% combined avoidance (15% Dodge, 15% Parry), some I've heard trying to get the avoidance within 200 rating of each other. What exactly is the "ideal" avoidance I should strive to achieve?
30%, but it will be closer to 17%/13% with swordshattering and Horn. Put swordshattering on and you are there as swordshattering doesn't count for diminishing returns.
Yeah, honestly, our avoidance is high enough just focusing mastery > avoidance. I think I was around 31% fulled buffed with swordshatterring.
The idea is to have the ratings balanced, not the percentages. As Abyssimal pointed out, your stats will look closer to 17% parry 13% dodge, and that should be roughly 1800 or so rating for both. Just know that when you hit 2000+ rating you start seeing diminishing returns on how much Avoidance you get per chunk of rating.
Ah, now I get it. So instead of trying to even the numbers out, I should try and achieve the 30% overall by having the Parry more than Dodge, to the 17% /13% ratio. So If I change the rune to Swordshattering, I will get the 17% Parry I need, then I just bring the excess down a bit to try and get to that sweet spot by tweaking the ratings to be as close to each other as they can.
Alright, I can do that when I next get on today after work. Thanks for the clarification.
EWWWW, working on Memorial Day. I'm just sitting in a lawn chair on my covered patio. It is quite awesome....lol
Being Canadian, I had my long weekend last week. So I can't really complain.
oh, my bad. Always assuming everyone has our AMerican holiday dedicated to the fact that we like war....lol
OT though, diminishing returns on avoidance are always in effect. Its just the more you get, the harsher the returns. I think there is a sticky about it on the tank forums. Its why most just stack mastery (including the block tanks), because of the diminishing returns on avoidance. The mitigation value of mastery just becomes so much better than avoidance. Plus the fact that avoidance will affect our mastery...yadda yadda yadda. Plus just for fun I have wasted like 1000g regemming and reforging to a max avoidance set and my healers hated me. At least the said they noticed the difference. I needed to find something to do the change the game up a bit hoping to make me less bored and frustrated,and race changing to a DK skinned human didn't do it
~25% or higher combined if you're stacking mastery.
Much higher if you're stacking avoidance instead of mastery.
Right now it appears I have a total of 25.51% chance of avoiding attacks with Stoneskin Gargoyle as my Rune, so it's not like I'm starved for avoidance or anything. But we'll see if I can get close to 30% perfectly once I change the rune to Swordshattering.
thanks for this thread I was a little bit confused about this too :)
i think I had it but it confirmed :)
im at 28.2 and I do have Swordshattering maybe I should switch to stoneskin and rebalance everything out.... what do you guys think?
30% is a rough area, not an absolute.
SS > SSG in terms of mitigation. The only time you should consider SSG is if you need more HP to live until your next DS.
ok thanks
ill stick with SS
but might reforge more to mastery and try to have an average of 25 avoidance
thnx guys i needed this. ive been having tanking probs but i think ive about got it down to just my timing my priorities and playing the RE game
30% including sword shattering seems really low to me.
I'm pulling 14.58d and 17.8p with 24.35 mastery.
When I was avoidance tanking I had ~41 with 18.5d and 22.5p with 14-15 mastery.
Oh, never expected to see one of my old posts bumped.
This thread is 3 months old. Of course the numbers are low.
Ew. necro.
Before 4.2 hit, I generally found my avoidance around 13%/17% mark as was suggested. Since 4.2 hit, however, I've found my avoidance has gone up even further than I can reforge, with Dodge around 14.5% and Parry almost 18%, and this is only in a handful of 365/378 along with mostly 359 gear. So yeah, the numbers will be greater these days.
30%, but it will be closer to 17%/13% with swordshattering and Horn. Put swordshattering on and you are there as swordshattering doesn't count for diminishing returns.
Yeah, honestly, our avoidance is high enough just focusing mastery > avoidance. I think I was around 31% fulled buffed with swordshatterring.
The idea is to have the ratings balanced, not the percentages. As Abyssimal pointed out, your stats will look closer to 17% parry 13% dodge, and that should be roughly 1800 or so rating for both. Just know that when you hit 2000+ rating you start seeing diminishing returns on how much Avoidance you get per chunk of rating.
Ah, now I get it. So instead of trying to even the numbers out, I should try and achieve the 30% overall by having the Parry more than Dodge, to the 17% /13% ratio. So If I change the rune to Swordshattering, I will get the 17% Parry I need, then I just bring the excess down a bit to try and get to that sweet spot by tweaking the ratings to be as close to each other as they can.
Alright, I can do that when I next get on today after work. Thanks for the clarification.
EWWWW, working on Memorial Day. I'm just sitting in a lawn chair on my covered patio. It is quite awesome....lol
Being Canadian, I had my long weekend last week. So I can't really complain.
oh, my bad. Always assuming everyone has our AMerican holiday dedicated to the fact that we like war....lol
OT though, diminishing returns on avoidance are always in effect. Its just the more you get, the harsher the returns. I think there is a sticky about it on the tank forums. Its why most just stack mastery (including the block tanks), because of the diminishing returns on avoidance. The mitigation value of mastery just becomes so much better than avoidance. Plus the fact that avoidance will affect our mastery...yadda yadda yadda. Plus just for fun I have wasted like 1000g regemming and reforging to a max avoidance set and my healers hated me. At least the said they noticed the difference. I needed to find something to do the change the game up a bit hoping to make me less bored and frustrated,and race changing to a DK skinned human didn't do it
~25% or higher combined if you're stacking mastery.
Much higher if you're stacking avoidance instead of mastery.
Right now it appears I have a total of 25.51% chance of avoiding attacks with Stoneskin Gargoyle as my Rune, so it's not like I'm starved for avoidance or anything. But we'll see if I can get close to 30% perfectly once I change the rune to Swordshattering.
thanks for this thread I was a little bit confused about this too :)
i think I had it but it confirmed :)
im at 28.2 and I do have Swordshattering maybe I should switch to stoneskin and rebalance everything out.... what do you guys think?
30% is a rough area, not an absolute.
SS > SSG in terms of mitigation. The only time you should consider SSG is if you need more HP to live until your next DS.
ok thanks
ill stick with SS
but might reforge more to mastery and try to have an average of 25 avoidance
thnx guys i needed this. ive been having tanking probs but i think ive about got it down to just my timing my priorities and playing the RE game
30% including sword shattering seems really low to me.
I'm pulling 14.58d and 17.8p with 24.35 mastery.
When I was avoidance tanking I had ~41 with 18.5d and 22.5p with 14-15 mastery.
Oh, never expected to see one of my old posts bumped.
This thread is 3 months old. Of course the numbers are low.
Ew. necro.
Before 4.2 hit, I generally found my avoidance around 13%/17% mark as was suggested. Since 4.2 hit, however, I've found my avoidance has gone up even further than I can reforge, with Dodge around 14.5% and Parry almost 18%, and this is only in a handful of 365/378 along with mostly 359 gear. So yeah, the numbers will be greater these days.
Anti Magic Zone...why bother?
[:1]I specced into AMZ for raiding, as I figured it would benefit the raid for certain situations...but there's really no reason. AMZ breaks on a single tick from basically ANY boss AoE dmg as it doesn't absorb nearly enough, even if it were to absorb double or triple its amount in PVE SETTING it would be great.
Just make AMZ work different in pvp, aka player dmg counts double towards AMZ to break it faster, etc etc. Its basically a worthless talent right now, and i'm contemplating just putting another point into IBT or even desecration for H Rhyolith and such fights.
It's more of a PvP survival cooldown if you ask me - negates caster cleaves pretty well.
Deleted by Brossann
Any magical damage that hits multiple players at once will ignore the cap on AMZ and disappear afterward, ie. Electrocute, Flame Scythe, etc.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2973249168
It was only useful against nefs crackles(specially in 25 man it was great)and maloriak's fire breath cleave.Yes 95% cata raid boss deals high magic damage.But with every1s max HP and the max cap of AMZ and cd its prety much useless.Think al'akir acid raid.Amz will last exactly 1 sec.And here in T12 raid it would be useful at majordomo if unholy could stay close to frost's damage.And its very very useful at heroic bale'roc to save a healer from tormented debuff once /2min.
Another thing I have to add,if you are unholy Please spec AMZ.
AMZ is a great cooldown in Firelands on:
Flame Scythe
Superheated stomps
If your guild needs the cooldown, spec for it on those fights. If not, don't.
If you are going to raid as UH, grab it. The extra points in magic suppression are really nice as well. With 3/3 you reduce your damage taken by a huge amount over a fight because of AMS' short CD and glyphed 7sec duration.
More importantly, as has been stated AMZ absorbs fully on multiple targets if the damage is simultaneous, and even on fights where it's not you can treat it like an AMS for a friend, or in an emergency on a tank, etc.
Hands down the best cooldown for Flame Scythe, and heroic Beth'tilac's Devastation, it makes the damage negligible on both at extremely high stacks.
I've found Unholy + AMZ to be a great offspec for the fight's I'm not tanking in. Which also happen to be the ones people have noted make great fights to use AMZ on =P
MAJORHOMO
^ best fight to use amz, especially during the phase where people are getting out of the stack when seeds about to explode
Great for Beth in Burn phase
My only beef with it is I can't place it like a DnD.
its a great mitigator of damage on Majordomo. any magic damage thats hits multiple people at the sametime negates the AMZs total damage, so it will absorb 45k for 25people which equals 1.125 million raid damage on the scorpion cleave, and with a 2min cd its up for every scorpion phase
Just make AMZ work different in pvp, aka player dmg counts double towards AMZ to break it faster, etc etc. Its basically a worthless talent right now, and i'm contemplating just putting another point into IBT or even desecration for H Rhyolith and such fights.
It's more of a PvP survival cooldown if you ask me - negates caster cleaves pretty well.
Deleted by Brossann
Any magical damage that hits multiple players at once will ignore the cap on AMZ and disappear afterward, ie. Electrocute, Flame Scythe, etc.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2973249168
It was only useful against nefs crackles(specially in 25 man it was great)and maloriak's fire breath cleave.Yes 95% cata raid boss deals high magic damage.But with every1s max HP and the max cap of AMZ and cd its prety much useless.Think al'akir acid raid.Amz will last exactly 1 sec.And here in T12 raid it would be useful at majordomo if unholy could stay close to frost's damage.And its very very useful at heroic bale'roc to save a healer from tormented debuff once /2min.
Another thing I have to add,if you are unholy Please spec AMZ.
AMZ is a great cooldown in Firelands on:
Flame Scythe
Superheated stomps
If your guild needs the cooldown, spec for it on those fights. If not, don't.
If you are going to raid as UH, grab it. The extra points in magic suppression are really nice as well. With 3/3 you reduce your damage taken by a huge amount over a fight because of AMS' short CD and glyphed 7sec duration.
More importantly, as has been stated AMZ absorbs fully on multiple targets if the damage is simultaneous, and even on fights where it's not you can treat it like an AMS for a friend, or in an emergency on a tank, etc.
Hands down the best cooldown for Flame Scythe, and heroic Beth'tilac's Devastation, it makes the damage negligible on both at extremely high stacks.
I've found Unholy + AMZ to be a great offspec for the fight's I'm not tanking in. Which also happen to be the ones people have noted make great fights to use AMZ on =P
MAJORHOMO
^ best fight to use amz, especially during the phase where people are getting out of the stack when seeds about to explode
Great for Beth in Burn phase
My only beef with it is I can't place it like a DnD.
its a great mitigator of damage on Majordomo. any magic damage thats hits multiple people at the sametime negates the AMZs total damage, so it will absorb 45k for 25people which equals 1.125 million raid damage on the scorpion cleave, and with a 2min cd its up for every scorpion phase
DK t12 2pc
[:1]I has a question about the 2 piece tank set bonus:
The burning blood debuff, it activates on melee attacks ya? So if i trucked a mob with Heart Strike, and assuming it hit all three monsters in the mob, will the three it hit be debuffed with burning blood? or nay?
yeah it will put the debuff on all 3 targets
Yes.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2869307283
sweet!
The burning blood debuff, it activates on melee attacks ya? So if i trucked a mob with Heart Strike, and assuming it hit all three monsters in the mob, will the three it hit be debuffed with burning blood? or nay?
yeah it will put the debuff on all 3 targets
Yes.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2869307283
sweet!
Killing off the Death Knights.
[:1]Just signed in to play my DK and the first thing I noticed is that most of my abilities don't work unless I start taking damage to build up my runic power. Did I miss something? I thought I had runic power and it only went down when I use my abilities. I don't remember getting all those message about not being able to use my abilities because I didn't have enough power right off the bat.
Blizzard should just eliminate all death knights instead of just nerfing the crap out of us.
no and it never worked like that
this is by far my favorite post of the day
/palm
I... W... What?
...Wanna run that by me one more time?
lay off the !@#$%^-*! and maybe you'll figure it out
edit* lol @ mari.juana
lol
Last I checked, you start with 0 RP and each ability you use gives a minimum of 10 RP, and it decays outside of combat. There ya go. Mystery solved.
What is this, I don't even......
Lay off the hootch.
Deleted by Lokoz
Deleted by Papgrimweed
Agreed, rogues using RP is op.
I believe at this point we're all in agreement that OP is an idiot.
Please proceed to delete your character before somebody gets hurt.
August 10
Classes
Death Knights
Applicable death knight abilities are now using the correct amount of resources (and putting them on cooldown) when there are 4 Death Runes available and the Unholy Runes are depleted.
This is what happen.
No.
A++ would lol again.
not even remotely close to what you described
Blizzard should just eliminate all death knights instead of just nerfing the crap out of us.
no and it never worked like that
this is by far my favorite post of the day
/palm
I... W... What?
...Wanna run that by me one more time?
lay off the !@#$%^-*! and maybe you'll figure it out
edit* lol @ mari.juana
lol
Last I checked, you start with 0 RP and each ability you use gives a minimum of 10 RP, and it decays outside of combat. There ya go. Mystery solved.
What is this, I don't even......
Lay off the hootch.
Deleted by Lokoz
Deleted by Papgrimweed
Agreed, rogues using RP is op.
I believe at this point we're all in agreement that OP is an idiot.
Please proceed to delete your character before somebody gets hurt.
August 10
Classes
Death Knights
Applicable death knight abilities are now using the correct amount of resources (and putting them on cooldown) when there are 4 Death Runes available and the Unholy Runes are depleted.
This is what happen.
August 10
Classes
Death Knights
Applicable death knight abilities are now using the correct amount of resources (and putting them on cooldown) when there are 4 Death Runes available and the Unholy Runes are depleted.
This is what happen.
No.
A++ would lol again.
August 10
Classes
Death Knights
Applicable death knight abilities are now using the correct amount of resources (and putting them on cooldown) when there are 4 Death Runes available and the Unholy Runes are depleted.
This is what happen.
not even remotely close to what you described
Conerning Lichborne/Deathcoil
[:1]How many death coils can you guys typically get out on yourself during Lichborne? I usually get around 4-6 if my runic power is capped and i spam howling blast for more runic power.
I'm also wondering if I should save Pillar+Trinket/Empower rune weapon to try to optimize my heals and get more heals since DK is so squishy or just use them for the crazy burst we have because that's all it seems we really have left.
Also would u suggest trinketing a howl of terror or psychic scream rather then lichborning to save for heals or the next fear?
I'd probably trinket fear if they are after my teammate with full CD blown off. If they use fear on me and start to attack me, then I would wait till the damages knocks off the fear. Lichborning probably better off on the heals unless you got the lock or priest almost down like 5% health.
I use empower rune weapon depending on who has lower health. If its the opposing player then I just use it and blow off all my CD to kill them. If its me then I would save my hide by spamming DS and quickly pull off Death Pact on my ghoul.
I'm also wondering if I should save Pillar+Trinket/Empower rune weapon to try to optimize my heals and get more heals since DK is so squishy or just use them for the crazy burst we have because that's all it seems we really have left.
Also would u suggest trinketing a howl of terror or psychic scream rather then lichborning to save for heals or the next fear?
I'd probably trinket fear if they are after my teammate with full CD blown off. If they use fear on me and start to attack me, then I would wait till the damages knocks off the fear. Lichborning probably better off on the heals unless you got the lock or priest almost down like 5% health.
I use empower rune weapon depending on who has lower health. If its the opposing player then I just use it and blow off all my CD to kill them. If its me then I would save my hide by spamming DS and quickly pull off Death Pact on my ghoul.
I sigh at gnaw
[:1]I wonder why, why blizzard makes unholy dks so reliant on their pets for damage now that gnaw has become almost utterly useless. We are forced to have claw on autocast due to its substantial damage yet when it's on our pets are always deprived of energy required to use their stun. If claw is on autocast it takes no less than a minute of spamming my gnaw hotkey before it actually goes off. Of course, I could always toggle claw off right before i decide to petstun but the delay is more than annoying and it results in a drop of damage for that period of time. It makes unholy less desirable to play and I wonder why no change has ever been implemented... ever.
it's annoying at imes... but sometimes I manage to get it on the second or third try. I hope Blizz fixes it soon.
it's annoying at imes... but sometimes I manage to get it on the second or third try. I hope Blizz fixes it soon.
Will this work?
[:1]Realize I could post this in arena forum, but I'm thinking people here might have a better idea of the survivability concern I am having. Starting to run Hpally Frost DK Unholy DK. It seems alright so far minus the cc on the pally concern and both dk's questionable survivability. Last season got 1923 running TSG with a resto shaman without vent then the warrior stopped coming online.
I'm using the same healer but on his Paladin and the Unholy dk is good at his class but I'm questioning if this comp can equal or outperform the TSG I ran last season or if cc and survivability is going to hold us back. I probably already know the answer to my question but I thought I would get confirmation from other dks who might have an idea of the synergy potential between frost/unholy in an arena setting.
Food for thought, which cc's in particular should I be concerned about diseases causing to break?
i can see the comp being good against wizards. i see the comp getting steamrolled by melee cleaves tho. dk's just do not have the necessary tools to survive a good melee cleave. the fact that you run 2 dk's just makes it that much harder to keep them both up.
I'm using the same healer but on his Paladin and the Unholy dk is good at his class but I'm questioning if this comp can equal or outperform the TSG I ran last season or if cc and survivability is going to hold us back. I probably already know the answer to my question but I thought I would get confirmation from other dks who might have an idea of the synergy potential between frost/unholy in an arena setting.
Food for thought, which cc's in particular should I be concerned about diseases causing to break?
i can see the comp being good against wizards. i see the comp getting steamrolled by melee cleaves tho. dk's just do not have the necessary tools to survive a good melee cleave. the fact that you run 2 dk's just makes it that much harder to keep them both up.
ideas for dk tanking
[:1]first off they need a armor buff +like 5-6k ish should be good
the blood shield should be base line since the ds glyph nerf hurt dks bad in pvp but 16+ heals were too op imo. 6-7 heal + a 4-5k bubble is ok i think (ya i know nothing to do with tanking but w/e)
and a new mastery OMG a block the dk pulls a corps from the ground using it to block 30% of the dmg.chance to block based on mastery
and lower the cost of rune strike so its easyer to pull runic power to use lichborne as a defensive cd and boom no more wipes in fl because u have a dk tank instead of a bear cuz ur a baddie!
gogo qqqqqqqqqq im bad blah blah and have no idea what im talking about
O_o
lol nice ideas.
I think it be better if Blood DKs had the damage reduced by armor and any other defense buff before it hits the blood shield.
For example:(A simple one, not complex lol)
Current receiving damage
NPC throws a 50,000 melee damage hit
10,000 absorbed by blood shield
50% reduced by armor
DK takes 20,000 damage
My suggestion for receiving damage
NPC throws a 50,000 melee damage hit
50% is reduced by armor
10,000 is absorbed by blood shield
DK takes 15,000 damage
If it were like this then they can call the mastery Blood Armor instead of Blood Shield.
the blood shield should be base line since the ds glyph nerf hurt dks bad in pvp but 16+ heals were too op imo. 6-7 heal + a 4-5k bubble is ok i think (ya i know nothing to do with tanking but w/e)
and a new mastery OMG a block the dk pulls a corps from the ground using it to block 30% of the dmg.chance to block based on mastery
and lower the cost of rune strike so its easyer to pull runic power to use lichborne as a defensive cd and boom no more wipes in fl because u have a dk tank instead of a bear cuz ur a baddie!
gogo qqqqqqqqqq im bad blah blah and have no idea what im talking about
O_o
lol nice ideas.
I think it be better if Blood DKs had the damage reduced by armor and any other defense buff before it hits the blood shield.
For example:(A simple one, not complex lol)
Current receiving damage
NPC throws a 50,000 melee damage hit
10,000 absorbed by blood shield
50% reduced by armor
DK takes 20,000 damage
My suggestion for receiving damage
NPC throws a 50,000 melee damage hit
50% is reduced by armor
10,000 is absorbed by blood shield
DK takes 15,000 damage
If it were like this then they can call the mastery Blood Armor instead of Blood Shield.
Duel wield or two hander?
[:1]For pvp. Two-hander or duel wield?
Just want a straight up answer
I've seen people do good with 2h and dw.
2h, necrotic strike only hits with the MH while DWing.
Roll DW, it has bigger numbers..
And makes rogues poopy pants'd
Just want a straight up answer
I've seen people do good with 2h and dw.
2h, necrotic strike only hits with the MH while DWing.
Roll DW, it has bigger numbers..
And makes rogues poopy pants'd
So.... PVP...
[:1]I haven't done much pvp other than just the odd weekend goofin off, but i've been thinkin more and more about getting the conquest shoulders for my dps set(i've been using my tank shoulders when my guild needs me to dps, it's annoying to reforge and regem and change my inscription on them depending on what they need me to do that night)
so...
what's the fastest way to go about this? grind AV as a tank on drek for a week and get the honor set, then stay blood and try to find a spot as a flag carrier on an RBG team, or go with arena's and try some other spec?
If all you want the shoulders for is to DPS, why not exchange valor points for conquest points? It's a 1 to 1 exchange rate at the valor QM.
The max conquest points you can get from random BGs is 25 a day. But one heroic gives 70 valor and a troll gives 140. It's easy to get them without ever PvP'ing at all. (This is stupid IMHO, but hey if it's allowed milk it for all it's worth)
Otherwise you gotta run Rated BGs or Arenas to acquire conquest at a reasonable rate.
i'm saving my valor for the t12 tank pieces and other tank gear on the valor vendor.
i could grind honor for 1 day and get the 371 pvp set and be ready to roll in some rbg's.
i think i'll go ahead and do that this weekend since it's AB weekend. i don't have much resil but i can go tank and park on d and try to annoy them to death.
so...
what's the fastest way to go about this? grind AV as a tank on drek for a week and get the honor set, then stay blood and try to find a spot as a flag carrier on an RBG team, or go with arena's and try some other spec?
If all you want the shoulders for is to DPS, why not exchange valor points for conquest points? It's a 1 to 1 exchange rate at the valor QM.
The max conquest points you can get from random BGs is 25 a day. But one heroic gives 70 valor and a troll gives 140. It's easy to get them without ever PvP'ing at all. (This is stupid IMHO, but hey if it's allowed milk it for all it's worth)
Otherwise you gotta run Rated BGs or Arenas to acquire conquest at a reasonable rate.
i'm saving my valor for the t12 tank pieces and other tank gear on the valor vendor.
i could grind honor for 1 day and get the 371 pvp set and be ready to roll in some rbg's.
i think i'll go ahead and do that this weekend since it's AB weekend. i don't have much resil but i can go tank and park on d and try to annoy them to death.
anyway to make necrotic stronger with stats?
[:1]do any stats increase the absorbtion on necrotic?
Str/ap, and any cooldowns/items that increase those 2.
Str/ap, and any cooldowns/items that increase those 2.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)