~Reworking our abilities as a whole instead of just buffing or nerfing the hell out of one ability or talent would make us easier to balance in the long run~
1-Our Pets Do NOT scale with our crit every other class that have pets gets benefits from their secondary stats (haste and crit that is) And there is a lot of crit on gear now days. Complete garbage stat for unholy nor does frost desire it.
I have reforged to maximize my crit the ghoul nor gargoyle gets our crit
( To top it off this is a old issue that they have NEVER addressed)
2-DnD does not scale with haste and it should at least for unholy
3-Our "DoTs" are a joke and do not scale with haste only there to make our strikes hit a lil harder
4- They sought to make our presences make "SENSE" but now every dps is playing in unholy presence and if you play frost pres in frost spec your automatically bad.
My Suggestions And I will start with Unholy seeing as how it was my main spec at the start of cata untill the big nerf a few months in....
UNHOLY
1- The ghoul needs to scale from our stats just like other classes pets does
2- Reduce Shadow Infusion to 3 stacks
3- The talent Morbidity should increase DnDs benefit from haste to make it a decent single target spell but suffer more quickly for AoE diminishing returns. If it did to much move it down a tier so only unholy could get it OR remove blood boil and adjust cooldowns (talent reducing) accordingly (remember blood strike? put blood boil in the same place)
4- Our dots are a joke and so is icy touch, Why icy touch isnt on par with howling blast ill never know. But my idea for our dots is this
They should scale per strike/ability used to apply them much how a casters dots would work. If you hit harder they (the dots) hit harder.
5- Scourge Strikes shadow portion should scale from the damage our 2 dots are doing.
Now granted our frost fever wouldnt be hitting for much due to the spec/mastery Blood plague should be hitting "DECENTLY!" and not just a placeholder for buffing strikes anymore they on their on for each spec should hit and be felt when they hit
6- Unholy blight is another example of a long lost awesome/unique tool we use to have. Buff it to 50% of death coils damage at least. And scales with crit/mastry/haste of course
7- With these changes Unholy might could go back to the 10% as originally intended or might go back to 5% or scrap it all together.
What this would do is open us up for higher more even sources of damage and leaving more room to be tuned. instead of just o heres 10% more str.
FROST
1-Frosts (FROST) damage is a joke
--Frost strike should be less physical and more magical so our mastery is actually useful
2-The howling blast glyph should be made into the spell as should the icy touch glyph be made into the dot portion.
3- Improved frost presence Should increase damage as said but while in frost presence would apply a stacking DoT each time frost strike was used with frost fever up and applying up to 5 times. Call is frostburn or something but of course it would scale from haste/crit/mastery. Merge the FS glyph and create this said design with new glyph or w/e
4- Reduce Obliterates damage while its nice to see those big numbers flying across the screen its a pure physical damage ability that scales with nothing but str/wep damage. We are frost dks not blood (you are missed btw) Take out the glyph or something.
5- Here again our dots should be reworked as stated above for unholy. Howling blast if you dont merge the glyph give HB a new DoT for AOE ONLY .To keep from being used in single target it would do less damage the fewer targets and more damage the more targets and could stack a couple times. ( the dot portion that is )
- Howlings AoE Direct splash could be reduced- Honestly we are still to high on aoe imo.
2H Frost and MoTFW
The rp gen would need to go because we would be playing in frost presence again. Increase TOTAL damage not just auto atacks by X % or Buff our DoT Scaleing TO bring 2H in line with DW because a 2h Oblit crit is significantly lower than a DW crit
What this would do is keep us from sitting waiting to line up oblits with KM procs. Playing in the slower frost presence (as far as gcds) would keep us from hitting to many abilities at one time for a overload on deeps and what we would hit would actually matter. Oblits to build our RP and Frost strikes to put the hurting on something.
All of these things ive said would allow us to still be competitive and be allowed to be more quickly and efficiently tuned.
Prime example remember how 2h frost was to much damage? Now its the lowest of our 3 dps choices... Whereas if we had more option to play with as far as our abilities goes then a nerf hit wouldn't be as bad
Another suggestion for MELEE DPS AS A WHOLE
While you may be in a raid and may be gettin beat by said melee dps class the fact is casters are @*!%in meters and have been for the entire xpac so far minus ele shammys mind you-
Anyone with more than one DoT is pwning plus arcane mages
They are obviously not enforcing the hybrid rule anymore Shadow priests have been to high along with boomkins for to long.
What I suggest here is the removal of expertise and glancing blows
Why? I feel a lot of melee have not been tuned properly with the removal of ArP and our white attacks are not hitting as hard along with yellow atks.
Whats that you might say "blizzard said they wanted to make yellow attacks more meaningful and fun"
Look at what they did to fury warriors I rest my case
I did not make my dk my main untill ICC came out for raiding. I have heard/lived with the negative hype we have gotten. Those days are pretty much over for many reasons but Look at the facts look at how frost was when it went live. They pretty much changed unbreakable armor and gave a talent to make 2h frost "viable" and that was it. Unholy got all the love. Now were in this state doing to much or not enough.
And i blame blizzards fail 2nd hand team for doing this.
Several things -
1. Blizzard can't make diseases super powerful for unholy because they have incredibly long durations. Loading all that damage onto a PvP target, or in AoE situations is overpowered. This is why they changed the Unholy mastery at the start of Cataclysm, it's why they nerfed the T9 set bonus, and it's why they gutted unholy AoE in 3.1. Diseases do plenty of damage over their duration already.
2. Why does Scourge Strike need to scale with disease damage? All that is doing is hiding more AP scaling behind another mechanic. If you want to increase Scourge Strike damage passively just buff the AP coefficient.
3. Every ability does not need to scale with every stat. Should the ghoul scale with crit? Yes. It is a huge part of Unholy's damage. Does DnD need to scale with haste? Not really. With the cooldown all it really does is frontload the same amount of damage anyway.
4. Icy Touch and Death Coil can't be buffed much because a Shadowfrost spec is always extremely tempting for PvP. DKs being able to do almost full damage from range is OP, and one of the reasons S5 was so bad. Furthermore, Unholy Blight does benefit from haste, crit and mastery because it is based off DC's damage and DC scales with all of those stats. If the UB dot itself scaled with stats it would double dip.
5. Frost strike is 100% frost damage already and always has been.
6. Frost's mastery is fine. It is a fairly well-scaling stat, and abilities do not need to be changed to make it better.
The class in general could use some numbers tweaks and maybe a few small mechanic changes (shadow infusion, frost using unholy presence), but screwing with pretty much every ability is completely unnecessary.
TL;DR: OP presents a solution in search of a problem.
Its stated as You have to hit this ability to make the other ability better a plain AP coefficient buff to say Scourge strike does not help the issue
You talk about max dps at range when we are clearly restricted by the number of runes, unholy would be limited because they need to build rp for dc dumps and icy touch would be out of the question because its a frost based spell.
You say frosts mastery is in a good place but you have clearly not played a dk and reforged from a haste heavy build to a mastery heavy build to see the difference it makes. All they need to do is move some talents around to keep people from exploiting certain builds and stats for said gains in pvp .
Shorten our disease duration and the other fillers/dot appliers would be used more often which is why i stated the changes that i did.
The changes would be based per talent tree not overall class which is what you seemed to miss.
What I said about unholy blight was due in part of it being a pathetic source of damage.
And I did not say nor suggest every ability scale with every stat. I merely suggested the abilities we do have scale with what we DO HAVE stat wise.
Look at the end of a boss fight on any dks damage list and look at the sources.
Then tell me they do good damage( our dots)
You take what i said outa form. Our Yellows need to be reworked. We can be competitive dpsers again and still be in a position to be more easily tuned.
Think about it. If im pulling __K on X boss and I have 3 yellow attks that are op ( FROST DPS) and our damage is to high they will nerf something into the ground and the spec will die AGAIN! Just like 2h frost did.
Thats my point we need more synergy with more abilities and everyone wins
Look at the ghouls and gargoyles damage
Then compare the pets to that of a lock or hunter
You ever wonder why hunters have always been good dps? They dont have exp nor glancing blows and get crit from their prime stat such as druids/rogue/enh sham
Casters do not get resisted anymore remember old warlock curse of elements? remember spell pen get catered smore plz.
I made a thread similar to this, but is centered around Unholy. It hasn't received any traffic yet, and I'd like some people's opinions.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2973013747
The crit would be negligable that our pet would get.
Dnd - would you want it to tick more and last less time based on haste ?
UNHOLY
1- The ghoul needs to scale from our stats just like other classes pets does
2- Reduce Shadow Infusion to 3 stacks
3- The talent Morbidity should increase DnDs benefit from haste to make it a decent single target spell but suffer more quickly for AoE diminishing returns. If it did to much move it down a tier so only unholy could get it OR remove blood boil and adjust cooldowns (talent reducing) accordingly (remember blood strike? put blood boil in the same place)
4- Our dots are a joke and so is icy touch, Why icy touch isnt on par with howling blast ill never know. But my idea for our dots is this
They should scale per strike/ability used to apply them much how a casters dots would work. If you hit harder they (the dots) hit harder.
5- Scourge Strikes shadow portion should scale from the damage our 2 dots are doing.
Now granted our frost fever wouldnt be hitting for much due to the spec/mastery Blood plague should be hitting "DECENTLY!" and not just a placeholder for buffing strikes anymore they on their on for each spec should hit and be felt when they hit
6- Unholy blight is another example of a long lost awesome/unique tool we use to have. Buff it to 50% of death coils damage at least. And scales with crit/mastry/haste of course
7- With these changes Unholy might could go back to the 10% as originally intended or might go back to 5% or scrap it all together.
1) Ok. pets should scale with crit. We have 0% crit from talents and avoid crit like the plague. Having our pets scale correctly with crit would help but would be a minor dps increase. We would still avoid crit all the same.
2) Shadow infusion @ 3 stacks ? Why. All that would allow is for me to pool my runic power when its about to go down (costs 102 Runic power) and quickly refresh it in 3 GCDs. That doesnt even consider Sudden Doom Procs. With 5 stacks it requires 140 runic power (again assuming no sudden doom) this way, you cant just pool runic power to instantly reapply it, even if specced into RPM.
3) So you want DND an AOE move to be better single target. It was (and may still be) better than expending a rune on scourge strike provided the boss wont move out of it.
4) Why isnt icy touch on par with howling blast? Uhh.. howling blast is a 31pt talent. Really? And our diseases arent meant to do alot of damage. If they did they would be overpowered in aoe situations because of how easily they're applied via pestilence. They dont suffer DR in aoe because technically its not aoe, its single target on alot of mobs.
5) you want scourge strike to scale with diseases? IT already does buddy.
6) Unholy blight is (estimating) a 100-200 dps gain for 1 point. Not to mention its functionality in pvp. It was initially changed (i think anyway) to combat healers dispelling dots as fast as we could put them up in pvp.
7) You didnt even propose a change here. But yeah good try.
Darn they both beat me to replying lol.
But yeah theyre pretty much dead on...as unholy and being able to reapply dots through a skill and you wanting it to be more powerful...with the given duration (which is pretty long) it would be very OP-ed.
Crit is a no-no, nuff said.
Btw, our DoTs are not meant to be OP-ed, but theyre meant to enable our other skills to do more damage.
Frost dps was never bad...if you have to wait to line up a KM proc then youre doing something incorrectly whether its your build or gear via reforging...
If you want to exploit the mastery aspects of frost then spam HB although it more or less a splash damage skill as well.
If youre a DK and youre getting beat on the meters by a mage...somethings wrong...
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